Biblical Disagreements Archives - Churches that hurt people need a fresh letter from Paul https://churchesthathurt.com/category/biblical-disagreements/ Let's talk... Mon, 26 Aug 2024 16:14:49 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.1 The Meeting https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/08/26/the-meeting/ https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/08/26/the-meeting/#respond Mon, 26 Aug 2024 16:14:47 +0000 https://churchesthathurt.com/?p=45 After my 20-year-old daughter called two different pastors, we finally had an appointment to speak to one of them—not the rude one, not the one who crossed his arms and told me, “You are not welcome to attend here,” but the one who was brought alongside as a witness. He started the meeting with a...

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After my 20-year-old daughter called two different pastors, we finally had an appointment to speak to one of them—not the rude one, not the one who crossed his arms and told me, “You are not welcome to attend here,” but the one who was brought alongside as a witness.

He started the meeting with a prayer that made it clear I was supposed to forgive any wrongdoing which I am, but forcing forgiveness someone else to forgive…is that really forgiveness?”

It was made clear that the other pastor would not attend the meeting, and the pastor I met with apologized on his behalf (sort of). My daughter did say, “That’s not really your responsibility to take responsibility for someone else.” Bottom line, I am “allowed to attend.” I find the whole situation repulsive, not of Christ. If leadership uses lies and manipulation – much less won’t follow any of the Biblical methods of conflict resolution – It seems their actions don’t match the verse-by-verse teaching they espouse.

Suppose a pastor is misled by a congregant’s manipulation and lies (since Calvary Chapels don’t have memberships) and asks someone not to attend based on those lies. What responsibility should the lying congregant bear once it’s confirmed they were not truthful? If an executive pastor gatekeeps information from a pastor and only gives his narrative, what’s the recourse? Shouldn’t discernment be a gift somewhere in leadership? Should there be heartfelt apologies all around, or should the hope just be that the offended party goes away quietly?

Now an overseer must be blameless and beyond reproach, the husband of one wife, self-controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable, able to teachnot addicted to wine, not [a]a bully nor quick-tempered and hot-headed, but gentle and considerate, free from the love of money [not greedy for wealth and its inherent power—financially ethical]. He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity [keeping them respectful and well-behaved] (for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?).

Things I’m pondering

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Contentious https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/07/22/contentious/ https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/07/22/contentious/#respond Mon, 22 Jul 2024 03:18:27 +0000 https://churchesthathurt.com/?p=30 In my recent meeting with “leadership” at my church, I was told at least nine times that I was contentious and disruptive. There were no real examples except “catching eyes” with someone and “looking” at someone else. To be fair, there have been contentious times in the past with this couple. Their decisions have impacted...

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In my recent meeting with “leadership” at my church, I was told at least nine times that I was contentious and disruptive. There were no real examples except “catching eyes” with someone and “looking” at someone else. To be fair, there have been contentious times in the past with this couple. Their decisions have impacted my and my daughter’s lives, and it’s not a pretty story. I’m still going to be somewhat vague for now. But we have all attended the same church for nearly four years without issue. I go into the sanctuary at the last possible minute (to get a seat in the back), and I leave a few minutes early to avoid confrontation or “catching eyes” or, more correctly, to avoid getting the stink eye.

There have been no disruptions. I’ve looked up disruptions in the Bible, and the only thing I see is when the demon-filled girl was following Paul, and he demanded the spirit to leave. I see a lot about peace; I see specific sins called out by Paul. But I don’t see an example of someone being offended that someone else was at church and they were asked to leave. Here’s what I do see.

In Corinthians, “Let all things be done decently and in order.” (I hardly see being stopped literally at the door and told you aren’t welcome being decent or in order.)

Humble Service in the Body of Christ

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[a] faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead,[b] do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] says the Lord. 

I want to make sure I am not seeking revenge but clarity. I seek to ensure that someone younger in the faith isn’t turned away in a spiritually abusive manner. I also think this particular leader is so intertwined that he is controlling the narrative in a very unhealthy manner. I think that needs to be exposed for the safety of the church community.

I am praying for the following:

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Forgiveness Starts with Me. https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/07/15/forgiveness-starts-with-me/ https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/07/15/forgiveness-starts-with-me/#respond Mon, 15 Jul 2024 05:19:27 +0000 https://churchesthathurt.com/?p=20 Even if you have been slandered, mistreated, and shamed by someone in authority at a church, while it is normal to feel hurt and angry, we must let God fight this battle. I personally want to rain fire down, but I’m told in the Old Testament that I only need to be still and let...

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Even if you have been slandered, mistreated, and shamed by someone in authority at a church, while it is normal to feel hurt and angry, we must let God fight this battle. I personally want to rain fire down, but I’m told in the Old Testament that I only need to be still and let God fight the battle for me.

I do think it’s interesting to note that while God requires me to forgive, he requires me to repent to receive His forgiveness. Less-than-honorable leadership in the church doesn’t require them to repent to me for me to forgive, but spiritual repentance requires a complete turning away from unbiblical behavior. If they don’t, that’s when we get to shake the dust and treat them as unbelievers.

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