Devious Archives - Churches that hurt people need a fresh letter from Paul https://churchesthathurt.com/category/devious/ Let's talk... Mon, 26 Aug 2024 16:14:49 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.6.1 The Meeting https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/08/26/the-meeting/ https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/08/26/the-meeting/#respond Mon, 26 Aug 2024 16:14:47 +0000 https://churchesthathurt.com/?p=45 After my 20-year-old daughter called two different pastors, we finally had an appointment to speak to one of them—not the rude one, not the one who crossed his arms and told me, “You are not welcome to attend here,” but the one who was brought alongside as a witness. He started the meeting with a...

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After my 20-year-old daughter called two different pastors, we finally had an appointment to speak to one of them—not the rude one, not the one who crossed his arms and told me, “You are not welcome to attend here,” but the one who was brought alongside as a witness.

He started the meeting with a prayer that made it clear I was supposed to forgive any wrongdoing which I am, but forcing forgiveness someone else to forgive…is that really forgiveness?”

It was made clear that the other pastor would not attend the meeting, and the pastor I met with apologized on his behalf (sort of). My daughter did say, “That’s not really your responsibility to take responsibility for someone else.” Bottom line, I am “allowed to attend.” I find the whole situation repulsive, not of Christ. If leadership uses lies and manipulation – much less won’t follow any of the Biblical methods of conflict resolution – It seems their actions don’t match the verse-by-verse teaching they espouse.

Suppose a pastor is misled by a congregant’s manipulation and lies (since Calvary Chapels don’t have memberships) and asks someone not to attend based on those lies. What responsibility should the lying congregant bear once it’s confirmed they were not truthful? If an executive pastor gatekeeps information from a pastor and only gives his narrative, what’s the recourse? Shouldn’t discernment be a gift somewhere in leadership? Should there be heartfelt apologies all around, or should the hope just be that the offended party goes away quietly?

Now an overseer must be blameless and beyond reproach, the husband of one wife, self-controlled, sensible, respectable, hospitable, able to teachnot addicted to wine, not [a]a bully nor quick-tempered and hot-headed, but gentle and considerate, free from the love of money [not greedy for wealth and its inherent power—financially ethical]. He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity [keeping them respectful and well-behaved] (for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?).

Things I’m pondering

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Bible Concepts https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/07/21/bible-concepts/ https://churchesthathurt.com/2024/07/21/bible-concepts/#respond Sun, 21 Jul 2024 03:01:51 +0000 https://churchesthathurt.com/?p=28 If you look at social media, you’ll see a lot of posts about Narcissists. That word can hold a lot of feelings, a lot of avoidance, a lot of anger and tactics to get around them. The actual definition of narcissism is selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration,...

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If you look at social media, you’ll see a lot of posts about Narcissists. That word can hold a lot of feelings, a lot of avoidance, a lot of anger and tactics to get around them. The actual definition of narcissism is selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration, as characterizing a personality type. Lying also seems to be a large focus of this personality disorder. Since this concept was defined in 1898 it’s a new(er) term. But we know from Ecclesiastes there is nothing new under the sun.

Another thing I am seeing on social media is some pastors building a platform about themselves or their ministry, not the Word. Even in verse-by-verse churches, you see this.

Is it all narcissism? I don’t think so, but I do think the Biblical concept of pride applies….

Proverbs 16: 5 Everyone proud in heart is an abomination to the Lord;
Though they join [d]forces, none will go unpunished.

Proverbs 3:32 For the devious are repulsive to the LORD; But His private counsel is with the upright [those with spiritual integrity and moral courage].

Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are extremely disgusting to the LORD, But those who deal faithfully are His delight.

I think if Paul saw a church that not only allowed a person involved in ministry to spread lies but also participated in spreading them with leadership, there would be a letter. Oh, wait. Maybe this is already covered.

Ephesians 4 25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give [g]place to the devil. 28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. 29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary [h]edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, [i]clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

“The moment a structure begins to promote itself, it has violated the nature of Christ and has drunk the poison of its death.”
― Gayle D. Erwin, The Jesus Style

Church Leadership – are you building your own kingdom or God’s Kingdom?

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